The Real Estate Investing Club

Investing in Commercial Real Estate in 2020 with Jack Britvan | The Real Estate Investing Club #16

Transcript for Investing in Commercial Real Estate in 2020 with Jack Britvan

Unknown Speaker 0:02
All right, we are live.

Gabriel Petersen 0:05
JACK, thank you very much for joining us today. How are you doing?

Jack Britvan 0:10
Doing good.

Gabriel Petersen 0:11
All right. All right. And you’re over there in New York, correct.

Jack Britvan 0:15
Long Island,

which for those people that don’t know, basic where I’m located is, you know about a, you know, 70 miles from Manhattan. But if you drive there and there’s no shelter in place, you know, Sheldon place, I can make it there, you know, in under 30 minutes with it. You know, when things get back to normal,

it’s probably about an hour and 20 minutes.

Gabriel Petersen 0:42
Traffic, the bane of today’s society. That’s great. So why don’t you introduce yourself, you know, tell us you already told us who you are. So tell us a little bit about where you’re from, and how you got into real estate in the first place.

Jack Britvan 0:57
was born in Brooklyn.

wound up

starting to work when I was 15 strong work ethic that I got from my mother wound up starting a catering company at the age of 15. When shoveling snow, etc during winter and looking for odd jobs through college, worked at my stepfather’s meat packaging plant, hated but graduated from Brooklyn College and went into his business over there. He said I wouldn’t take it over. And I really hated it. So I don’t lie. It is my two brother in law’s. We’re both in commercial real estate 101 A Long Island. Since I had recently moved to Long Island, I know naturally I started to work here. After about seven, eight years, I wound up became partners. In a company that was actually I think that would be they were the 48th largest independent brokerage in the country at the time, showman superbrat after that, wound up became a partner in another firm. And, you know, right now it’s my own shop. used to have 17 brokers. Everyone was older than me, they all retired. I got I got basically with three now three people, but I’m, I have 42 years in the business. The other two guys are in the business longer than me. So so that’s where my my, my my expertise is basically anything commercial after 42 years if you really have yet. You’re really involved in the business on a day to day basis. You’re there. Office leasing is my strongest suit. Anything in sales there, what to look out for what to expect calling the market

I pretty much have my hand on

Gabriel Petersen 2:59
that. Love it 42 years that is that is a long career so you have I’m sure you pretty much know everything there is to know about commercial real estate specifically in in northeast but I mean pretty much anywhere I’m sure. So that’s great. That’s great you started you you know you were young you started in snow shoveling and catering. And then you moved over to Long Island you worked in a meatpacking facility which you hated which makes sense. It doesn’t sound like the best job. And then you went on to to commercial real estate which you stuck with it for 42 years which is farther than longer than anybody’s most people’s career these days is they don’t stick with one career a lot longer than a couple of years. So 42 years is a that’s an accomplishment in and of itself. So tell us a little bit you already went into your business right now a little bit, but kind of give us the the bread and butter of what you do. You said you do commercial You said you do office? What is it that kind of brings in the dollars for your business.

Jack Britvan 4:01
Well, I do consulting, which I do all over the country, which I’m really enjoying these days, because you hear all different stories. And you get to interact with brokers because you can’t do consulting outside of your area without you have to learn what’s happening in the area there. And every market is different. It’s just different tweaks, and it’s just different. But other than that, it’s it’s, you know, selling properties, leasing properties, getting cold in on problems situations, usually by tenants and but sometimes by landlords who are, you know, they really, they just, they don’t know how to handle a particular problem. And they just call me and, you know, they say, jack, yeah. Have you ever experienced this? You know, what can we do? And you’d be surprised. You know, I’m an SDR for those that don’t know society and industrial north is realtors. thousand members in the United States approximately, it’s the highest designation you can get as a commercial broker. So I have a 3000 people out there when I’m doing consulting, or just if I need a question on something that I can reach out to, and we all get involved with each other, you know, if we have an answer to a particular problem, so

Gabriel Petersen 5:21
nice. I love it. Yeah, having a, having a network like that, especially when it’s what’s related to your specific niche has to be, I mean, as good as gold. I wish we had something like that around here. So I mean, as you know, this is a real estate investing podcast. Um, so we really try to focus on the investing side of things. So I’m going to ask just a specific question regarding investing because I know you’ve there’s plenty of commercial investors out there. And I’m sure you’ve dealt with with your fair share. So if you know putting your glasses your investor glasses on, if somebody were to want to get into commercial real estate investing, they wanted to buy it commercial property, you know, from your your basic retail, just, you know, strip mall kind of 111 piece of commercial real estate to an office building. What would the what are the steps that that person should take? What what what is it that they should be asking? What are the things that they should be looking at?

Jack Britvan 6:22
Well, the first thing is any cash. If you’re not liquid, no one’s just going to give it to you because they like you and to cover you and 100% it’s not going to happen. Okay? So very often people get involved and they don’t have enough liquidity. They figure that they’ll have family members, friends, business associates, go in with them. And everybody likes to say yes to things until it comes time to writing out a check. And all of a sudden, I have, you know, the college tuition bills. My wife wants a larger house, and it doesn’t happen. So the first thing is to make Make sure you have your capital, capital, you know, in lines, have some relationships with lenders and know what you’re getting into and work out the numbers, see what you actually can afford. And don’t look at properties that are way out of your league because you just You’re wasting your time and it’s just you can only get into trouble. You know, people feel that, you know, they look at a property and they hear Wow, it has, you know, a five cap a seven cap this that. Well, it doesn’t mean much. If the lease expirations on the two largest tenants, which are the only credited tenants in the in the building, all coming up in a year or two. It means nothing.

Okay, so the quality of the tenant,

big time even though things still happen with quality tenants was saying an hour when COVID-19 stuff happens going to know you know, but you know, you know chapter 11 and And all of a sudden, the least that you thought that was ironclad is gone.

Like you have and

that’s the truth, you have to plan on the worst. I mean, you’re looking at all these retail outlets that are probably going to wind up going out. And that household names they’ve been around forever. But yeah, you’re financing and you have to know where to go in order to define the properties. Yeah. Industrial and this is, you know, when I when I speak, I’m speaking about Long Island, but there’ll be times that I’ll mention things around the country, the strongest by far. Okay, is a combination, it’s medical, which I’m going to get to but really industrial warehousing that is taken with big time in the last, you know, what, five years from what I seen with covert 19 is that we’re gonna make sure that we have certain amount of strategically located warehousing with P P P along with other things because I think that we’re going to be looking to take certain manufacturing away from other countries and to bring it closer to the United States and to do more here creates more jobs and we certainly we have we have the land to build it not necessarily on Long Island. But there’s there’s there’s plenty of areas in the United States where you can put away housing and make towns come alive and get creative over there. Um, medical, medical is always good. Doctors, when they when they go in. They want their patients to know where they’re located. They don’t want to relocate unless they absolutely have to. Medical is always strong, and people are talking about the fact of

well,

medical people are doing it through the internet talking. That’s fine for certain things in the long run. When you have something really wrong with you or you just need manual physical, you can’t do it online. You have to physically go in there. And and so medical is

Gabriel Petersen 10:04
always the body they got to look at it they can’t do that online.

Jack Britvan 10:07
You got it’s always

then you come up to the to questions you have office, which will be impacted a bit. And there are people that say everybody experience working from home and they’re not going to be going to the office anymore. The office buildings all go wonder couldn’t be further from the truth. Remote Access and working has been going on for many years, and every year it becomes a little more. Give you an example. Will you penalize which people people know the name? Basically I’ve represented them exclusively for over 30 years.

They’re

the one that is they sell through other agents and when people call them they don’t canvass per se. At least they did. So after all these years, they gave up all the references bass and people just work out of the homes that want to work out of an executive suite because they don’t want to be in the house with a kids or whatever. That’s one thing. But there’s no no office space for them anymore.

That’s it. It’s,

it ended about three years ago. So while there are trades that can work at home, they still have to go in the office once in a while. And the question is, are those people going to share one desk, one cubicle one office? The answer is chances are chances are not 10 certain things be done? Yes. But they’re still going to need an office to go to that as much as you can store on computers and in the cloud. There’s always paperwork that you need to keep handy. There’s always secretarial work, that you really have to be there with the person and review with other people that you’re not going to wind up being uncomfortable just doing it on a Zune call. You’re gonna wind up wanting to stay in an account. conference room and review it. And with and with, let’s say the 10% of the office space that

will go away.

If you’re leasing 10,000 feet somewhere, and 10% of that is going away. You’re still not doing anything with your space, it’s still there. Yeah, you’re not

Gabriel Petersen 12:20
gonna, you’re not gonna go on thousand feet.

Jack Britvan 12:24
You may wind up, you know, changing some things around. But remember, the flow of your office space probably accounts for about, you know, up to 30%. So we’re talking about, you know, 70% of that 10,000 feet and 10% of that. So it’s really 700 feet is what’s really the difference. So it’s not going to change totally, yes. So people are going to want to build these smaller offices. Chances are, yes, smaller individual offices. Over the years, we’ve had office space that always had to be in and out outside window. And then 1015 years later, all the above The landscape had the outside window and all the offices were on the inner core with glass partitions, then went back the other way. And it is there’s always a switch things are always happening. I don’t think anybody’s gonna be rushing to build a new new office buildings unless there’s a demand for it or somewhat released. But I don’t think that there is a problem with the office, office market, there will be some buildings that have taken down that are older, that are inefficient, and depending upon the landscape and what you can put over there, if you can put some type of industrial use. It makes sense. If not, then probably medical. The big problem that we’re gonna wind up seeing is the retail component between Amazon between just all the stores, basically that you can buy their product online and have it delivered within a day or you know, five days without a cost. And try it on. If you don’t like it, send it back. And I know that from my for my daughters that there’s always packages arriving and they they live in Manhattan, I get the packages at my house to visit I tried to stuff on it, they keep it or they go out and they leave it for me to bring back. So

you know to drop off at the post office or postal service. So

the retail is going to be a problem. Restaurants are going to be hit very, very hard. Because even now, I would say if they break out even and they keep business going, they’ll thrive later on. But, you know in the warm weather you can eat outside for those areas that do have an outside of which they’re permitted to use. But there are so many problems with having people go from a restaurant from an inside going to outside that never did it. For, there’s just so many issues going on. And I’m not going to start going over the individual issues or whatever. But so many things can wind up going wrong, even in the fact of just feeling comfortable eating out in the restaurant, not knowing if the guy in the kitchen is wearing a mask and wearing gloves. And if someone took that temperature in the last hour, and a menu they gave you if it’s not a throwing menu, touch that before. So I think restaurants have a long long haul in front of them. Uh, you know, some will survive, some won’t certainly the pizza places are going to still be great. They can do great for those people in Seattle. If you don’t know what a bagel is.

Gabriel Petersen 15:43
We got our coffee down, that’s for sure.

Unknown Speaker 15:45
Okay.

Jack Britvan 15:48
But no, there are certain restaurants or takeout places that are going to do very, very well if not better than they did before because of COVID but it’s been very tough on restaurants, a lot of good To close down some will take that place a while depending upon when when we have a vaccine or we feel comfortable with a you know, with medicine over there to see that you know that the effects are toned down, you’re not gonna die from it.

You know, the restaurants are gonna have big problems.

The retail stores

as I said with Amazon, and with others, it’s just a lot of problems, the malls, a lot of problems, some malls, I believe are going to wind up cutting a section off and seeing if they converted into apartments into rentals.

Gabriel Petersen 16:41
So, I’m just gonna I want to unpack you’ve, you’ve gone through a lot so far, and I just want to really, you know, unpack it just to make sure that we have everything that you’re saying correctly. So you’ve went through the different sectors of commercial, commercial real estate, and you said office, industrial warehousing and medical office space. Those are the safe ones. Those are the ones that you don’t think are going to be impacted as much by COVID going into the future, retail and restaurant, those are the ones that are have become more of a risk are kind of on the fence, whether they’re going to be as strong in the future. Is that right?

Jack Britvan 17:17
That’s correct. Well, if this is not as office is somewhere in the middle, okay, the warehousing, industrial and medical, they are absolutely fine. Okay.

Gabriel Petersen 17:29
Okay, that’s good. And so I want to ask, I want to unpack this a little bit more. I mean, the very beginning beginning of what you were talking about, you mentioned that when somebody is looking at buying a commercial property, if the lease is up in a year, then it’s it might not be as as safe of an investment as as if the lease were up and, you know, 10 years. And so I just kind of wanted to ask, what is the average lease length that you look for when When it comes to buying a commercial property, what what? What is it? What is a general term? When you put it in, put it into a contract? I’m sure it depends on the on the sector that you’re working with, but just overall What is it? What is a average lease length?

Jack Britvan 18:16
Well, let me just mention one thing there are times there’s short lease remaining term

is beneficial.

If If you have somebody that’s paying well on the market,

and you have a high property, that’s fantastic. Okay, what I’m what

I was referring to before was really if you have somebody pretty much at market and the lease is coming coming up and you don’t know if they gonna stay, and then you have downtime, you have brokerage commissions, you have carrying costs. I it’s not something you have to look into that over but basically speaking, if you have quality tenants you want to have you know, I’d say seven years on there, seven plus years, which is why Very often when we’re negotiating terms, we’ll get tenants that one shorter terms and the landlord says that I’ll give you some better terms, but I need the longer you know, longer term lease because I’m looking to refinance. So to refinance you know, you hope to have longer than seven years, probably 10 but you’re gonna want at least seven years. On all the tenants there, you’re gonna want to check the leases regarding security options, you know, just because you told that, you know, certain things exist or not, you have to read it yourself. You have to see what’s going on to it, you have to investigate.

Gabriel Petersen 19:39
Okay, perfect. So, that kind of there are a lot of people watching the show are, they’re not familiar with commercial investing, and so they’re not they’re not really familiar with the space. Um, can you kind of just outline Why? Why investing in commercial real estate is so beneficial, like why would you choose it over? I mean, you have most generally All of your experiences in commercials so you don’t have a lot in single family residential, but But why is why would somebody want to invest in commercial? What what are the benefits?

Jack Britvan 20:10
Oh, well let me first go when you say residential, there’s houses which I would never go touch upon buildings and apartment buildings depending upon the location. And you know in New York if you have an apartment building and it’s a rental, you basically have gold, you have gold. So, you know if you see Yeah, you can see the sports memorabilia back over there. That’s one thing that Alex Rodriguez did great. Yeah, he had. He has an advisor that live that’s from Florida, and she had told him from day one, all your money, apartment buildings, and that’s what he does. Didn’t know that upon buildings, okay. And he’s done unbelievably, and she gave him some great advice. It’s just the vibe, the right location. Then you You’re good. But as

far as you know on the commercial side,

if you get the right property

Not only is it will it go up in value

but you have something that’s going to be paying off

for as long as you’re gonna wind up having it as long as it’s great property, but you need the proper management on it. Now a lot of people think that a management company, well they collect the rent, someone has a problem, they make a cool that those are things you can do yourself. What a real management company does is keep the building from the top which starts at the top it starts with the roof. Most important part of the whole building is the roof. So starts with a roof and goes down and you have to keep the building the structure sound you have to know what has to be done in the coming years and to be plan have a three to five year plan on what has to be done have money allocated for it. And you also have to know regarding your leases and the building an example would wind up being, that on your escalations, if you have a direct operating pass through, which means your costs in the building are passed along to the to the tenants there. You can and depending upon if they are cats that the tenants negotiate or not, you can keep your building up in a certain fashion and the tenants will end up paying for it all matters are going to what the work is and what’s needed. So, but it’s, it’s the right investment pays off big time. But there’s a risk with everything. I just you know, you could wind up having a fantastic tenant. You know, everybody thought we work was so great. To be quite frank with you from as soon as they came out and they said we’re going to keep on growing growing. When someone says that there’s an issue, and I had friends that work there, and I said, This isn’t gonna work out, you can’t say we’re just going to keep on growing, you have to have a point where you say we’re going to stop. Okay. And, and so a lot of people in the in the commercial, I knew that wasn’t gonna go anywhere yet some landlords that their entire building went to we work and they said, you know, 50 $70 billion company, we had a home run, they’re gonna be here forever. They signed a 20 year term with us.

Yeah, well,

not not not to happen. That’s never really you never really know you’re not looking at the bucks. No one’s going to be 100%. Right? But you have to be careful. There’s always that risk that that large tenant that you have, doesn’t make it. And I’ll give you one one example of, of how you could protect yourself on that on a triple net basis deal. And that is there was an office building outside school 300,000 feet, and they had Grumman that was in the building. This was on Long Island. And the landlord was very smart. They saw Grumman needed to sign a 10 year term. So he had them sign, a 910 and 11 year term. Each floor had a different lease expiration. What it did was and they had to exercise it, they had to exercise their option to renew a year ahead of time, so we only had at least one full floor if they decided to give it up. And eventually they did. And he was able to lease out the building and not have any downtime or much less downtime because he was ahead of the game. He knew what was going on.

Gabriel Petersen 24:45
That is that’s interesting. That’s really smart. So he leased out each individual floor he leased he had a separate lease agreement with the same individual tenant.

Jack Britvan 24:55
You got it. That’s smart.

Unknown Speaker 24:57
I like that.

Jack Britvan 24:58
Yeah. And it was with Greg In who, you know, was acquired by, I guess it was Lockheed Martin or whatever else. I mean, it was huge contractor, and mostly government work, but he wanted protection. If you want my whole building, I don’t want it back in one swoop. That’s Yeah. That’s gonna be tough to do on the Long Island marketplace. So give me back 100,000 feet at a clip a year ahead of time, and allow you to market it. And it sounds good.

Gabriel Petersen 25:27
That’s a smart investor right there. I like that. All right, so so we try to keep these between 20 and 30 minutes. So we’re running on the end of the podcast time here. But before we before we head out, I want to talk a little bit more about your experiences and your stories. We all know real estate is it’s an up and down roller coaster. At times, you’re you’re you feel like you’re in the gutter and at other times you’re on top of the world. So kind of take us to to one of the times when you just felt you know, you’re at the bottom of the barrel. And what was the what was that experience? And what was the lesson that you kind of pulled from it other than the

Jack Britvan 26:03
fact of three months ago or a year into support the work but everything died?

Gabriel Petersen 26:10
That could be it that could be it might have been COVID? No, there

Jack Britvan 26:16
there have been there have been a few times the the commercial business, like in all businesses, but especially in commercial real estate. There are a lot of people that are unethical on both sides. We’re talking about brokers, we’re talking about companies that you represent with only about landlords. Most most define, but you do run into situations where you do work and someone comes back and just finds a loophole or all of a sudden, you know, has their their attorney on auto dial and put you in an awkward position.

You know, to where you don’t know how to react. Right. So

you know these things happen and hopefully they don’t happen. That one we have won’t go into the whole thing. But we had a case where we had, you know, showing the tenant, my brokers that some property. They it was property wasn’t really out there.

They found it.

They showed it to two or three different people have the same company. The President said the company said, Now we don’t want it. We don’t want it. And he went ahead and he signed the deal on his own. Save on brokerage. Yeah.

Well, he figured what are you going to sue me?

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 27:41
Yeah,

Gabriel Petersen 27:42
going behind your back. I’ve had that happen to me a few times. After and it’s just it’s it’s a rough thing. It’s the reality of the business. There are people out there that’ll that’ll stab you. But you got to keep your head up, that’s for sure.

Jack Britvan 27:55
Yeah, but that that that does

happen and it makes you and there’s nothing even when you’re writing And you go to court, you get that sinking feeling. You just it’s not if an attorney that used to it, they go in there, but when you go in there, you’re just and you’re being questioned. Yeah, it’s just not a comfortable feeling what that person on the other side is going to decide to try and make you look like okay, so it’s not it’s never comfortable to you don’t like it. Just want everybody to deal straight and just do the right thing.

Gabriel Petersen 28:26
So the lesson there, I mean, that’s a tough lesson because you can’t you can’t even if you feel you have a great judge of character, sometimes, you know, people slip under the radar and in that situation, it sounds like you couldn’t have done anything, because he went behind your back and you couldn’t have really known that ahead of time. So I suppose the lesson to be to to not deal with people that you don’t, that you don’t feel comfortable with, but you know, sometimes you just can’t you can’t, can’t grab it there. So

Jack Britvan 28:52
you don’t you don’t you don’t know. You don’t know.

Gabriel Petersen 28:55
Alright, so. So that’s the bottom. So now take us to the top like why do you love real Let’s take you know commercial real estate Why are you still in it? What brings you get you up in the morning?

Jack Britvan 29:06
Uh, I’ll tell you it’s uh you know there were times that it was mostly the money you know be able to buy what you want do what you want and you know not having to think about it but at a particular time in your life after you’re comfortable enough and the kids are all out of the house the colleges were paid for you know, took care of the kids and everything else fortunate right place right time. You start looking at the other things that you can wind up doing and what I what I realized was in commercial real estate, make some great contacts. Okay, and it’s not all about you know, knowing a landlord that’s a billionaire or knowing example, I was a consultant for Sterling equities which, which is the well ponds that own the mats, but it’s it’s the other connection. And the work that you did, I sat on the Long Island Executive Board of the American Cancer Society. So I met a lot of influential people there, you know, again, through that I became, you know, handled Getty royalty for probably 20 years or so. But it’s just the relationships that you meet along the way and the people and it’s very interesting, some people, you know, just, you know, they’re not your cup of tea and not i’m not everybody’s cup of tea either. But others you just look at and you say, Wow, he’s a really great and wonderful people. And if I ever if I can ever help them, I’m going to, and we would I find that out right now through relationships that I can reach out to some people that I just met through other people through the business that’ll go out of their way to help a cause or someone else that they never met met, just because the good people That’s one I’m really a big part of me right now is I started the 501 c three charity regarding World War Two Holocaust and other genocide education in New York Public Schools. I sit on New York based New York State taskforce

because of that, but it’s the

and talking to other states about similar issues and Manat mandating it because history does repeat itself and our kids aren’t educated enough out there. So I I really appreciate helping other people. And this this the business has allowed me to to meet a lot of people and that’ll also activist per se, and we do communicate and we do assist each other. And it’s a good feeling and it makes you just feel that you’re doing the right thing.

Gabriel Petersen 31:58
Like it. Yep, you are. You’re not the first person to come on here and say that the thing they love about real estate is the relationships they build. And so and and the same goes true for me that people you meet. That’s it’s it’s better than gold. So I’m right there with you. We are running at the very end of our segment here. So before we hop off, if somebody wanted to get in contact with you, what would be the best way to do that?

Jack Britvan 32:24
My email is the initial J. And then Britt fan vs. Boy, Rs. Robert. It isn’t Thomas v as in Victor A n at real brokers with an SN n.org. And my office line is 516-864-0011 perfect.

Gabriel Petersen 32:48
All right. Well, jack, I’m I’m sure I can speak for everybody listening and watching. We really appreciate you. I really appreciate having you on here and you sharing everything that you’ve shared with us today. So thank you for jumping on. For everybody watching and listening, if you want to get in contact with jack, he just shared his email and phone or I will put his LinkedIn page in the show notes so you can jump there. Other than that, we look forward to seeing you guys on the next episode.

Jack Britvan 33:15
Everybody stay healthy.

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